It's always surprised me, when talking to Americans online, how many people seem to feel they don't have access to the secondary car market.
Perhaps it's because I grew up around people who were good with their hands, but in my mind buying a used car isn't a scary matter - you visit the private seller, you look at the vehicle, you check for the things one needs to check for, and you know if it has problems or not. And if you can't do this, you've got a cousin or uncle who can.
But speaking to Americans, they make it sound like this kind of traditional working-class knowledge has been lost? A lot of folks seem positively scared of the second-hand market, and say that a $50,000 brand new car is going to save them money on maintenance.
> Perhaps it's because I grew up around people who were good with their hands, but in my mind buying a used car isn't a scary matter - you visit the private seller, you look at the vehicle, you check for the things one needs to check for, and you know if it has problems or not. And if you can't do this, you've got a cousin or uncle who can.
You could do that, sure. Or you could get a respected independent assessor. Here in South Africa we have Dekra (and others) who wil do a test of the car more thoroughly than I can (road test till operating temperature is reached, examination of the car on a lift for chassis damage/signs of repairs, oil leaks, etc, examination of car for signs of accident repair, pulling of DTC, etc).
If you go to this place - https://www.webuycars.co.za/buy-a-car/18C404984 - you'll see a car that looks good for its age on the surface with only a few easily fixable things (tail lights, brakes, etc). But the attached report shows that the chassis is twisted and that there are oil leaks. These two problems are terminal faults that I, even with a background as a mechanic, will not spot because I cannot put the car on a lift when I go to view it.
It's not perfect, but at least I don't waste time test driving a car with terminal faults (chassis damage, transmission DTCs or problems, engines without compression, etc).
It means when I look for a car, I can dismiss dozens of cars based just on the attached Dekra report, and spend more time examining the remaining ones for faults that Dekra might have missed.
> round people who were good with their hands, but in my mind buying a used car isn't a scary matter - you visit the private seller, you look at the vehicle, you check for the things one needs to check for, and you know if it has problems or not.
This has nothing to do with America. The rest of the world has this problem too. Not everyone is a mechanic outside of America.
Come to eastern Europe, nobody here buys a new car (people can't afford it unfortunately). For that exact reason most people have retained the knowledge of how to buy a used car, and choose one that is not awful, or at least the least bad one.
Can't you just buy from a second hand car dealer? They usually give you more guarantees than private sales (for a slight premium). That's how most people in the UK buy cars.
You can, but it's usually a larger difference. A car that might be negotiated down to $5k or $6k on the private market, will probably be at $9k-$10k on the dealer lot. Plus they'll tack on document fees, and so on. In the end, you might be looking at paying double what you would otherwise for cars in similar shape and mileage.
>But speaking to Americans, they make it sound like this kind of traditional working-class knowledge has been lost?
We don't have cars anymore, we have PlayStations with wheels. Even if you are able to properly diagnose the check engine, you may need to disassemble the whole engine just to replace a 20cent sensor inside.
>you check for the things one needs to check for, and you know if it has problems or not. And if you can't do this, you've got a cousin or uncle who can.
You don't even need to do that. You can just find a mechanic to do a PPI on the car, so they'll check for any issues and read the errors codes to see if there's something funky.
One, there's a big urban/non-urban split in American culture. The former are far less likely to know anything about working on cars, nor are they likely to have a friend or uncle that can help.
That cohort is very over-represented on HN.
Second, there's a lot of shady stuff happening in the used car market, and you really do need to be on top of things to not get scammed. We're talking that's absolutely illegal, but also difficult and expensive to enforce, so if you get stuck on the wrong end of a deal, you're just going to eat those costs.
Two things in my opinion: Cars are now much more complex than 10-15 years ago. And the secondary market is more expensive. It’d make sense if the discount is big enough but if it is not, you are gambling.
New cars require less maintenance and usually come with 1-3 years of warranty.
I'd guess perceived status. That, or, they want a tank: another arms race for Baby (Crushing|Saving) Machines. Modern cars keep growing.
I've bought exactly one new car: will drive it until the wheels can't be put back on. Before that, probably a dozen second-hand. I now make silly amounts of money, am American.
All this to say: used cars are best cars. Terrible purchasing experiences await regardless.
I’ve got a group of friends in Huston and it’s pretty crazy to me that to them having a “car payment” is almost as expected as having a cellphone bill. One of them didn’t even recall the sale price of his main vehicule, he just knew he could afford the car payment.
The car market right now makes no sense to me. Interest rates are high, prices are high (inflation + tariffs), unemployment is rising, inventory is low, and yet car sales are booming? What gives? People panic buying before tariffs have a bigger impact?
It's more that in America, cars are for the most part an inelastic commodity. It's very, very hard to hold a job and maintain your life without a car except in the densest of metro areas. Since the population is still growing, sales of cars keep going up and people get trapped in predatory loans or conditions. Used cars are also harder to find and more expensive, which pushes people into these predatory conditions.
I think it's a really poor indicator for the future. America literally cannot function without cars, and if people cannot afford cars they cannot afford to work.
A ten year old Honda Fit is like $12K, pretty fuel efficient, and probably reliable and low-maintenance (I owned one until recently). People aren't buying $50,000 new Ford F-150s because they just need a working car to go to work and the grocery store.
> People aren't buying $50,000 new Ford F-150s because they just need a working car to go to work and the grocery store.
Let me introduce you to half of my block. And I live in a city with fantastic public transit where you don't even need a car. I see those loan notices in mailboxes....
Maybe some people need a car to get to work, plus maybe they also want good optics with it, not wanting to be perceived as "broke" by the rest, so they splurge on a new car without any thoughts on financial responsibility just to keep up appearances.
It’s the optics part that breaks the camel’s back. Any decent car goes from A to B. Only expensive cars have the “optics”. The car is a status symbol that carries you around, and the poorest are the most “vulnerable” to need such a status symbol to compensate.
It mirrors perfectly the luxury fashion industry where more branded merchandise is bought by broke people than by rich ones (unbranded luxury goods are a different beast).
Nah, they will be sold into the used car market at whatever price the market will support while charging the highest interest rate possible.
From the report this is based on (pages 6-7), there are simply not enough cars to meet demand due to manufacturers constraining supply to maximize by price. Similar to new construction housing in the US. Tariffs make importing cheaper foreign made vehicles untenable. It’s an economic extraction doom loop.
It's always surprised me, when talking to Americans online, how many people seem to feel they don't have access to the secondary car market.
Perhaps it's because I grew up around people who were good with their hands, but in my mind buying a used car isn't a scary matter - you visit the private seller, you look at the vehicle, you check for the things one needs to check for, and you know if it has problems or not. And if you can't do this, you've got a cousin or uncle who can.
But speaking to Americans, they make it sound like this kind of traditional working-class knowledge has been lost? A lot of folks seem positively scared of the second-hand market, and say that a $50,000 brand new car is going to save them money on maintenance.
Crazy high standards of living, in a sense!
> Perhaps it's because I grew up around people who were good with their hands, but in my mind buying a used car isn't a scary matter - you visit the private seller, you look at the vehicle, you check for the things one needs to check for, and you know if it has problems or not. And if you can't do this, you've got a cousin or uncle who can.
You could do that, sure. Or you could get a respected independent assessor. Here in South Africa we have Dekra (and others) who wil do a test of the car more thoroughly than I can (road test till operating temperature is reached, examination of the car on a lift for chassis damage/signs of repairs, oil leaks, etc, examination of car for signs of accident repair, pulling of DTC, etc).
If you go to this place - https://www.webuycars.co.za/buy-a-car/18C404984 - you'll see a car that looks good for its age on the surface with only a few easily fixable things (tail lights, brakes, etc). But the attached report shows that the chassis is twisted and that there are oil leaks. These two problems are terminal faults that I, even with a background as a mechanic, will not spot because I cannot put the car on a lift when I go to view it.
It's not perfect, but at least I don't waste time test driving a car with terminal faults (chassis damage, transmission DTCs or problems, engines without compression, etc).
It means when I look for a car, I can dismiss dozens of cars based just on the attached Dekra report, and spend more time examining the remaining ones for faults that Dekra might have missed.
> round people who were good with their hands, but in my mind buying a used car isn't a scary matter - you visit the private seller, you look at the vehicle, you check for the things one needs to check for, and you know if it has problems or not.
This has nothing to do with America. The rest of the world has this problem too. Not everyone is a mechanic outside of America.
Come to eastern Europe, nobody here buys a new car (people can't afford it unfortunately). For that exact reason most people have retained the knowledge of how to buy a used car, and choose one that is not awful, or at least the least bad one.
The average interest rate on used car loans is above 10%, they do buy used, but it's even more of a scam
Can't you just buy from a second hand car dealer? They usually give you more guarantees than private sales (for a slight premium). That's how most people in the UK buy cars.
You can, but it's usually a larger difference. A car that might be negotiated down to $5k or $6k on the private market, will probably be at $9k-$10k on the dealer lot. Plus they'll tack on document fees, and so on. In the end, you might be looking at paying double what you would otherwise for cars in similar shape and mileage.
I don't know.. people have been buying used cars on Craiglist for as long as I can remember.
This is how I roll. Turn up next to the £100k EVs at the office in my 15 year old turd.
I go on holiday 6 times a year for that money.
The 15 year old turd seems to go wrong less and cost less to fix when it does as well.
>But speaking to Americans, they make it sound like this kind of traditional working-class knowledge has been lost?
We don't have cars anymore, we have PlayStations with wheels. Even if you are able to properly diagnose the check engine, you may need to disassemble the whole engine just to replace a 20cent sensor inside.
>you check for the things one needs to check for, and you know if it has problems or not. And if you can't do this, you've got a cousin or uncle who can.
You don't even need to do that. You can just find a mechanic to do a PPI on the car, so they'll check for any issues and read the errors codes to see if there's something funky.
I can think of a couple of factors.
One, there's a big urban/non-urban split in American culture. The former are far less likely to know anything about working on cars, nor are they likely to have a friend or uncle that can help.
That cohort is very over-represented on HN.
Second, there's a lot of shady stuff happening in the used car market, and you really do need to be on top of things to not get scammed. We're talking that's absolutely illegal, but also difficult and expensive to enforce, so if you get stuck on the wrong end of a deal, you're just going to eat those costs.
Two things in my opinion: Cars are now much more complex than 10-15 years ago. And the secondary market is more expensive. It’d make sense if the discount is big enough but if it is not, you are gambling.
New cars require less maintenance and usually come with 1-3 years of warranty.
I'd guess perceived status. That, or, they want a tank: another arms race for Baby (Crushing|Saving) Machines. Modern cars keep growing.
I've bought exactly one new car: will drive it until the wheels can't be put back on. Before that, probably a dozen second-hand. I now make silly amounts of money, am American.
All this to say: used cars are best cars. Terrible purchasing experiences await regardless.
I’ve got a group of friends in Huston and it’s pretty crazy to me that to them having a “car payment” is almost as expected as having a cellphone bill. One of them didn’t even recall the sale price of his main vehicule, he just knew he could afford the car payment.
The car market right now makes no sense to me. Interest rates are high, prices are high (inflation + tariffs), unemployment is rising, inventory is low, and yet car sales are booming? What gives? People panic buying before tariffs have a bigger impact?
It's more that in America, cars are for the most part an inelastic commodity. It's very, very hard to hold a job and maintain your life without a car except in the densest of metro areas. Since the population is still growing, sales of cars keep going up and people get trapped in predatory loans or conditions. Used cars are also harder to find and more expensive, which pushes people into these predatory conditions.
I think it's a really poor indicator for the future. America literally cannot function without cars, and if people cannot afford cars they cannot afford to work.
A ten year old Honda Fit is like $12K, pretty fuel efficient, and probably reliable and low-maintenance (I owned one until recently). People aren't buying $50,000 new Ford F-150s because they just need a working car to go to work and the grocery store.
> People aren't buying $50,000 new Ford F-150s because they just need a working car to go to work and the grocery store.
Let me introduce you to half of my block. And I live in a city with fantastic public transit where you don't even need a car. I see those loan notices in mailboxes....
It's millennials moving out of cities into the suburbs and deciding they need a car. Guess what the bestselling car in the US? Toyota RAV4.
The Ford F-series and Chevy Silverado both outsold the RAV-4 by significant margins.
Also the RAV-4 isn't a car, it is an SUV.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/best-selling-cars-us-h1-202...
> and yet car sales are booming? What gives?
Maybe some people need a car to get to work, plus maybe they also want good optics with it, not wanting to be perceived as "broke" by the rest, so they splurge on a new car without any thoughts on financial responsibility just to keep up appearances.
It’s the optics part that breaks the camel’s back. Any decent car goes from A to B. Only expensive cars have the “optics”. The car is a status symbol that carries you around, and the poorest are the most “vulnerable” to need such a status symbol to compensate.
It mirrors perfectly the luxury fashion industry where more branded merchandise is bought by broke people than by rich ones (unbranded luxury goods are a different beast).
Report: https://consumerfed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Driven-to...
Which eventually might be good? The repossessed cars will need buyers and they will offered at lower rates?
Nah, they will be sold into the used car market at whatever price the market will support while charging the highest interest rate possible.
From the report this is based on (pages 6-7), there are simply not enough cars to meet demand due to manufacturers constraining supply to maximize by price. Similar to new construction housing in the US. Tariffs make importing cheaper foreign made vehicles untenable. It’s an economic extraction doom loop.
Auto loans defaulting seems to suggest that the car market does not support the current rates and prices.